Really tremendous, Pe! Thanks for bringing me in on it! From my POV (from what I discovered over time in the press, etc, and just flat being a Fanilow!), you nailed the record company angle, Manilow and his "co-conspirators", as well as assessing the reactions here in the States! I loved your additions of "NY City Rhythm" (a fave o' mine) and "It's a Miracle", too, as extra Barry disco dabs....and, I'd never heard of his reluctance to side-step the disco genre to, hopefully, avoid his possible outing, but, it makes perfect sense, and you laid out the veracity for it beautifully!
Thank you, Brad. You’re an inspiration, and it’s always such fun collaborating with you. As I mentioned to Andy, your input on this one makes the episode really special. I’m so pleased with how it turned out. Wishing you a great Sunday!
😁😁 Friday was a holiday here in Belgium, so with the long weekend I woke up today fully convinced it was Sunday. Imagine the joy when I realized it’s only Saturday… 😂
Great post! You really do capture the essence of what made "Copacabana" unique in Barry's catalog and what it made it an unusual dance hit. I never knew that it was inspired by Lola Falana! I had the "Even Now" album before "Copacabana" was released as a single. It's interesting that he didn't think it should be the first single! By then, of course, he was the THE ballader in the U.S. so it made sense he'd go with other tracks first. I liked the balance on his albums between the more downtempo songs like "Mandy" with those that were much more upbeat like "It's a Miracle." "Copacabana" also was a mass-appealing hit. Even my mother loved it! She also loved "Daybreak" which was another more uptempo hit. Anyway, great research on a classic!
Thanks, Dan. You’re touching on an interesting discussion on why they hesitated with Copa as a single: because it wasn’t even the lead release. Maybe it was the real debate, would it be a smash or a total flop, nothing in between. Or perhaps there was a worry about Barry being seen as giving in too obviously to disco, especially as a closeted gay man at the time. Both explanations could fit.
The secondary question is even more intriguing: who actually pushed for the release? My guess would be Clive Davis, there’s a clue in the fact he specifically asked for a twelve-inch version. Of course, we’ll never know for sure, and as a trained historian I try not to wander too far from the facts and the assumptions I can back up 😁. Still, it’s fun to speculate.
As for Lola Falana, I only found one source mentioning her connection, but it makes sense given her background and the way the song is structured. Daybreak is one I don’t know too well either, I’ll have to give it a spin. Thanks again for reading and reacting, Dan. Wishing you a great rest of the weekend!
"Daybreak" has a more pop sound than "Copacabana" but even that one was a bit out of place on the charts at the time. It was first found as an album cut on his "This One's For You" album (my favorite from him!) He then had a huge live album called "Alive" and that version of the song hit big on the charts. A couple of other upbeat Manilow songs on the former album included "Jump Shout Boogie" and "Riders to the Stars" but the record company released the ballads as singles.
knowing Brad’s wide knowledge of Barry, I knew it was an obvious perfect pairing. i had a chance to sing Copacabana while walking along the named-famed beach. it was a highlight of my Brazil trip. unlikely disco moment, maybe, but an obvious choice for one, from my perspective…
I’ve never been to Brazil, Steve, but I’ve seen enough stunning photos of Rio to get a sense of what it must feel like, definitely sounds like a highlight of the trip. And yes, the perfect soundtrack to go with it. Thanks for reading and reacting, Steve. Have a great Sunday!
Thanks, Steve.....I love that--singing "Copa" on that beach! I'm picturing you, now, in a ruffled shirt and maracas over your board shorts! This was a fun one to work on with Pe!
Great post, Pe and Brad! Really enjoyed all the background on the development of the song.
I'm going to respond from a different angle about its performance in the market, as someone who was totally into dance music for many years and also did a lot of ballroom and Latin dancing.
I think this song did extremely well in everyday dance venues and in DJed events but not in big city discos per se, as it had a beat that was great for free-form dancing and really inspired you to get on the dance floor, but it did not have a beat that fit either disco or Latin dancing. The beat was not that of a hustle or any of the Latin dances. What it did have was a fast uptempo beat and a great story and lyrics (even if tragic) that made everyone and their grandma want to get on the dance floor, so much fun that it could become a staple at parties, weddings, you name it. Barry's other dance tunes suffered from the same problem, imho. I loved dancing to them, but they were too fast for anything but free-form dancing.
I also wonder if Copa resonates as a quintessentially American song in that bar fights are an American thing. I never saw fights in the pubs in the UK while I lived there. So I wonder if the story/lyrics just 'spoke' to an American audience in a way that they didn't to a UK or European audience.
Whatever the case, Barry is no doubt an American institution and will always be revered as such. We've always loved him.
Well Ellen, you make a really sharp point here. There’s definitely a big difference between the local dancefloor and what was happening in NYC. Since Billboard’s dance charts were based mostly on reports from big-club DJs, that certainly didn’t do much to help Copa & Barry.
Your note about Barry’s dance tracks lacking a clear direction also rings true, it shows how he preferred to stay in his lane. These were primarily pop songs, and if they could be given a dance treatment, great, but that was never the starting goal. A very different mindset from someone like, for instance, Giorgio Moroder 😁.
And as for the bar fights… sadly, that’s something universal 😁.
Thanks again for reading and for sharing such thoughtful remarks, it’s reactions like yours that make writing here so rewarding. Wishing you a great Sunday!
Thanks Pe for that explanation of how the dance charts were constructed and how Barry pretty much stayed in the pop lane.
Just thought I'd add that I seem to remember seeing Barry on TV quite a lot. I'm guessing it was on talk shows where he would perform a song as well as sit on the sofa and chat with the host. He came across as very warm and likeable and became a beloved personality as well as a pop singer. (As did Bette Midler!) I think disco had a different reputation (young and city) and Barry was able to get fans from oldsters to kids across the country, so it seems like a smart strategy on his part.
Anyway, enjoying your in-depth analysis and have a great Sunday too!
Great assessments on "Copa" vs. other dance venues/styles, Ellen! I can see all of it. Not being a dancer, I can see how its beat, etc doesn't "fit" as well in the discos, or for Latin dancing. And, I hadn't thought about it, but Barry did seem to not only "shy away" from disco (as Pe outlined re: the fear of being outed, etc), but "do disco badly," perhaps intentionally! But, his non-disco stuff....chef's mmmwah!😘🎵
Always liked Bazza despite his deep unfashionability in rock circles; his mastery of the melancholy melody rivals Abba in my book. I was also amazed Copacabana had not been a hit here in the UK. It was actually commercially available on 12" - Bazza's first release on the format in Britain. The 12" single was expanding rapidly at the time. 1978 was the year that RCA announced more unlimited 12" runs so that the discs would be available across the UK and not just limited to the select group of record shops whose sales contributed to the compilation of the singles chart. This prompted a backlash that the 12" was taking over and being used for all sorts of "unnecessary" releases, which would have no doubt included Copacabana! The anti disco movement in the UK was thankfully feeble compared to the US, but reactions like this prove that it was around!
I think the 12-inch was also commercially available in the Benelux, Paul. Back then there was quite a lively debate about whether the format was really necessary. Record companies didn’t seem too bothered by the argument either—they weren’t big fans of the format (more formats meant more risk, and twelve-inches had lower margins than singles or LPs). It’s a fascinating part of the story, and one I plan to cover in more depth once the second tier of the newsletter kicks off after the summer.
That said, I was genuinely surprised to discover in my research that Copacabana never charted as a hit in the UK in 1978. Barry was (and is) hugely popular, so I suspect it was one of those timing issues. Meanwhile, here in the Benelux we’ve always had a historic soft spot for Latin rhythms 😁.
Thanks for reading and reacting, Paul, wishing you a great rest of the weekend!
I hear ya, Pe, but, late-'70s in the U.S., I seem to recall feedback from label reps and articles in the trades as seeing the clubs and discos more of a "new market" to exploit, and less of a POV of whether the format "was really necessary."
I know that's a lot of raw materials (PVC) to use for "just" 2 songs (1 per side, generally), and I'm not pushing back on all you said here (as we're both simply reflecting on our "countries of experience")....but, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
I think the labels (the TKs, Salsouls, et al) were delirious that they had the artists and the means to keep churning out product, and I think their POV was that (like radio), the discos were simply another venue through which a new record-buying audience could hear new music and, ostensibly, buy the same records they'd hear at clubs, and "open a disco" at their homes (for parties) if they had the records!
I'm just curious if you heard much about that side of the vinyl debate at the time (or from the late-'70s disco heyday time frame). Thanks!
There’s definitely a difference between independents like TK, West End, Salsoul… and the majors (or the more pop-oriented labels). The majors’ business was selling albums, and from what I can tell, twelve-inches didn’t drive album sales the way singles did. In Europe, CBS for example didn’t even release the US dance versions of tracks like Instant Replay on twelve-inch—they put out the single version instead. (Talk about frustrating the customer.) Their relationship with the twelve-inch was always a bit ambiguous. I’ll need to dig deeper into this, but it’s a topic I plan to cover once the second tier of the newsletter gets rolling.
Great reminder for me about the indies vs majors. I had neglected that POV in my rememberies! I seem to recall, also, the 12" format being adopted, to whatever degree, by the rock/non-disco artists. The majors seemed to want to (possibly) take advantage of that format to at least see how they'd be accepted (if at all) by rock fans/album buyers.
It just occurred to me that labels (indies and majors, both) were dealing, for the first time in decades, with a new vinyl format! Singles and LPs for decades, and now, this new 12" monster, and how to maximize its use! Disco, fine, but, how might they, if at all, use it for their larger rock roster?
I bet that was all an internal discussion within the C-suites of the day, and likely included the artists in how they'd like their product marketed!
A lot of debates indeed, Brad… and they’ve shifted over time. In the beginning, no “album-driven” label wanted to take the twelve-inch seriously. But by the eighties it flipped completely, suddenly every company was putting everything on twelve-inch, even the ballads.
Well, that may well be my "blind spot," Pe! By late '83, I was out of the biz, and back into college, and into a new career after that! I wasn't as "plugged in," even in the early-'80s at an L.A. record store, to the emerging changes in 12-inchers.
My memories are really only filled by their introduction in the mid-'70s, while I was still in Houston, and transitioning from radio to retail records right around '77, when the format (and disco) was exploding!
12" singles were initially seen as replacements for EPs here in the UK and not just in the rock market. The limited edition MCA Disco Series, for example, included 4 trackers featuring artists like Shirley Ellis. They were used to promote the back catalogue of artists who had a hit single or two, but not enough materal to justify a greatest hits collection.
Well, that's interesting! Thanks, Paul! I hadn't heard of that 12" usage here in the states! I'd never heard of labels using 12-inchers to promote back catalog songs! Pretty creative, actually, but, it hints at labels (wherever they may be) sort of testing any- and everything to make sure they don't miss a commercial angle for a new configuration!
OMG - great deep dive. I am a Fanilow for sure. This one always has me singing along. Many of his lesser known songs are really special as well - Even Now...bonkers idea but so good. And When October Goes never gets old.
Thanks, Tamara.....ooh, have I got somethin' for you! A 3-part Manilow marathon of songs recorded by Barry, but as recorded by the original songwriters!! I call 'em "They Write the Songs"!
I wouldn’t call myself a “Fanilow” in the strict sense 😁. But aside from Copacabana (the single I picked up on one of those shopping trips to Antwerp, my mother’s idea of a big city outing, where I was allowed to choose a record as a reward for “behaving”), I’ve always had a soft spot for much of his seventies work. The connection with Clive Davis & his writing is new to me and really interesting, thanks for sharing that. And thank you as well for reading and for the kind compliment, especially coming from a true Fanilow. Wishing you a great Sunday!
Great anecdote about "Pe behaving" and a resultant reward! Clive introduced Barry on an American TV music show (Midnight Special or Don Kirshner's Rock Concert....can't recall) as "a new star for America." It's almost like he was going to "will" Barry's popularity into existence! He certainly had to be convinced, at the time, that Barry had "the goods," and that together with the Arista machine Clive was building, it would all come together! It was amazing to watch in real time, and a master class to observe through the passage of time!
In those 3 “They Write the Songs” articles (or, at least in one), Tamara, you’ll meet Stephen Michael Schwartz, who recorded an album for RCA Records in 1974 (at age 20).
Barry, while not yet having recorded one of Stephen’s songs, he did sing one of them (“Merry Christmas Wherever You Are”) on a couple of ‘80s TV Christmas specials!
Stephen has penned 20 exclusive articles for FR&B, I’m beyond proud to say, and I know you’d love ‘em all! Stephen’s articles are tagged at the top of the FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE main page!
BTW, coupla years ago, Stephen told me Barry had told him he was finally gonna record “Merry Christmas Wherever You Are,” but that’s yet to happen. I tell friends I’m two degrees removed from Barry! I know someone who’s got Barry’s phone number….but, what’s more stunning to me is that I know someone whose number Barry would want to have! Enjoy!
I think you’re so entrenched now, FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE, all that’s left is a jaunty round of Tune Tag! Holler at me in DMs if you’re game, Tamara, and I’ll fill you in on all the deets!😁👍
You guys make Friday great again. Back to the grind but believe it or not Copa has been hovering in my songbook for years great story song maybe the greatest story song. My recorded version will be a folk-rock take, along the lines of Bye, Bye American Pie possibly the greatest story song ever told oh well there's always Samson and Delilah by Blind Willie Johnson (unlistenable raspy vocals) and recorded by Rev. Gary Davis (very nice vocals and blues finger picking.) Also, Grateful Dead did it very well with Bob Weir at his best. But back to Copa Cabana. Was down there in Rio '99 partying like it was... and did that New Year's Eve festival: Lemanjá a major spectacular to rival carnival seeing in the New Year on Rio’s Copacabana Beach. Being one of around 3 million people on the beach, the vast majority dressed in white as they honor Lemanjá, the Goddess of the Sea, and one of the most important of the macumba deities. White candles sent into the ocean on little paper boats while native women smoke and drink and go into trances while Kid Abelha a new wave band from Rio de Janeiro formed by Paula Toller (lead vocals), George Israel (sax, guitar and vocals) and Bruno Fortunato (acoustic and electric guitar) played on the beach stage. Swimming in the warm ocean with a woman on each arm all peeing together after midnight floating there in the abyss. It doesn't get any warmer than that my musical brothers. A few years prior was guest listed at the NY Copa (East Side version not pictured) for "Thunderclub" and was properly introduced to bandleader Gerardo Velez by the promoter. He was probably the nicest musician I've ever met with a joyful presence. He is a blessed soul. He famously played congas with Jimi at Woodstock at 17 and is featured in the film having the time of his life. Saw him at Central Park Summer Stage with Chic (you knew there was a disco angle coming) as the World's Greatest Dancer and their featured percussionist. My second time seeing Chic live and they know how to throw a party. Like Friday Night! A B-Movie starring Donna Summer about a disco evening sometime after Saturday Night Fever! I've got it on DVD Jeff Goldblum in there too as a DB who can't get it on like Johnny T. So Funny! Commodores too Brrrrrick! Done that one and brought down the house in '09! Great disco sing-a-long anthem! On a sadder note, did you see Gloria Gaynor is accepting an award from DT! Oh well, she will survive. Somebody stop me! But thanks for letting me get my juices flowing. Too soon? You gave me a two-fer so I came back with a Tre! PS I have a live version of Good Times on a budget 3 CD disco set in a metal box no less, if need some rare live disco or alternate non-label royalty free tracks!
That’s quite a picture you painted there, Steve 😁, my imagination happily filled in the blanks 😂. TGIF may have been a B-movie, but what a soundtrack. And talking about Gloria Gaynor… it always surprises me how she somehow manages to stay eternally young(ish). Must be a secret potion involved 😁. Thanks for reading and reacting, Steve, have a great Sunday!
Guys, this was FANTASTIC!!! I didn't know a lot about the song, and while it's never been a favourite of mine, one cannot deny how irresistibly catchy and memorable it is!
I particularly loved hearing both of your perspectives across the pond, and how much you taught us in just a couple of minutes!
Amazing work, from every single point of view, and here's a fan of this duo!
I think I can speak for both of us when I say Brad is a real inspiration, Andy. I’m so glad he was kind enough to collaborate on this one, it makes the episode truly special and one of my favorites so far. Really happy you enjoyed it, and thanks as always for reading, reacting (and sharing). I’m always honored by your support. Have a great Sunday!
Most definitely! Brad is a true inspiration, and as a friend and fan of you both, it was double the pleasure for me to enjoy this article and your collaboration!
All very well deserved, and I wish I could do more! 😊 Have a great weekend!
Did you know that before his success Barry had a Punk band called Hot Mothers? They kicked ass but didn’t get anywhere. But Barry went right on kickin’ ass and just look at him now!!
I didn’t know that, John, and it didn’t come up in my research, though I didn’t dig too deeply into the early years. Thanks for reading and reacting, and have a great Sunday!
Really tremendous, Pe! Thanks for bringing me in on it! From my POV (from what I discovered over time in the press, etc, and just flat being a Fanilow!), you nailed the record company angle, Manilow and his "co-conspirators", as well as assessing the reactions here in the States! I loved your additions of "NY City Rhythm" (a fave o' mine) and "It's a Miracle", too, as extra Barry disco dabs....and, I'd never heard of his reluctance to side-step the disco genre to, hopefully, avoid his possible outing, but, it makes perfect sense, and you laid out the veracity for it beautifully!
Thank you, Brad. You’re an inspiration, and it’s always such fun collaborating with you. As I mentioned to Andy, your input on this one makes the episode really special. I’m so pleased with how it turned out. Wishing you a great Sunday!
🙏Happy weekend to you, as well (ours is just starting on our Saturday morning)!🌞
😁😁 Friday was a holiday here in Belgium, so with the long weekend I woke up today fully convinced it was Sunday. Imagine the joy when I realized it’s only Saturday… 😂
Woo-hoo! Bonus!
Great post! You really do capture the essence of what made "Copacabana" unique in Barry's catalog and what it made it an unusual dance hit. I never knew that it was inspired by Lola Falana! I had the "Even Now" album before "Copacabana" was released as a single. It's interesting that he didn't think it should be the first single! By then, of course, he was the THE ballader in the U.S. so it made sense he'd go with other tracks first. I liked the balance on his albums between the more downtempo songs like "Mandy" with those that were much more upbeat like "It's a Miracle." "Copacabana" also was a mass-appealing hit. Even my mother loved it! She also loved "Daybreak" which was another more uptempo hit. Anyway, great research on a classic!
Thanks, Dan. You’re touching on an interesting discussion on why they hesitated with Copa as a single: because it wasn’t even the lead release. Maybe it was the real debate, would it be a smash or a total flop, nothing in between. Or perhaps there was a worry about Barry being seen as giving in too obviously to disco, especially as a closeted gay man at the time. Both explanations could fit.
The secondary question is even more intriguing: who actually pushed for the release? My guess would be Clive Davis, there’s a clue in the fact he specifically asked for a twelve-inch version. Of course, we’ll never know for sure, and as a trained historian I try not to wander too far from the facts and the assumptions I can back up 😁. Still, it’s fun to speculate.
As for Lola Falana, I only found one source mentioning her connection, but it makes sense given her background and the way the song is structured. Daybreak is one I don’t know too well either, I’ll have to give it a spin. Thanks again for reading and reacting, Dan. Wishing you a great rest of the weekend!
"Daybreak" has a more pop sound than "Copacabana" but even that one was a bit out of place on the charts at the time. It was first found as an album cut on his "This One's For You" album (my favorite from him!) He then had a huge live album called "Alive" and that version of the song hit big on the charts. A couple of other upbeat Manilow songs on the former album included "Jump Shout Boogie" and "Riders to the Stars" but the record company released the ballads as singles.
"Daybreak" was/is one of my Barry faves!
Such a positive song!
knowing Brad’s wide knowledge of Barry, I knew it was an obvious perfect pairing. i had a chance to sing Copacabana while walking along the named-famed beach. it was a highlight of my Brazil trip. unlikely disco moment, maybe, but an obvious choice for one, from my perspective…
I’ve never been to Brazil, Steve, but I’ve seen enough stunning photos of Rio to get a sense of what it must feel like, definitely sounds like a highlight of the trip. And yes, the perfect soundtrack to go with it. Thanks for reading and reacting, Steve. Have a great Sunday!
Thanks, Steve.....I love that--singing "Copa" on that beach! I'm picturing you, now, in a ruffled shirt and maracas over your board shorts! This was a fun one to work on with Pe!
Great post, Pe and Brad! Really enjoyed all the background on the development of the song.
I'm going to respond from a different angle about its performance in the market, as someone who was totally into dance music for many years and also did a lot of ballroom and Latin dancing.
I think this song did extremely well in everyday dance venues and in DJed events but not in big city discos per se, as it had a beat that was great for free-form dancing and really inspired you to get on the dance floor, but it did not have a beat that fit either disco or Latin dancing. The beat was not that of a hustle or any of the Latin dances. What it did have was a fast uptempo beat and a great story and lyrics (even if tragic) that made everyone and their grandma want to get on the dance floor, so much fun that it could become a staple at parties, weddings, you name it. Barry's other dance tunes suffered from the same problem, imho. I loved dancing to them, but they were too fast for anything but free-form dancing.
I also wonder if Copa resonates as a quintessentially American song in that bar fights are an American thing. I never saw fights in the pubs in the UK while I lived there. So I wonder if the story/lyrics just 'spoke' to an American audience in a way that they didn't to a UK or European audience.
Whatever the case, Barry is no doubt an American institution and will always be revered as such. We've always loved him.
Well Ellen, you make a really sharp point here. There’s definitely a big difference between the local dancefloor and what was happening in NYC. Since Billboard’s dance charts were based mostly on reports from big-club DJs, that certainly didn’t do much to help Copa & Barry.
Your note about Barry’s dance tracks lacking a clear direction also rings true, it shows how he preferred to stay in his lane. These were primarily pop songs, and if they could be given a dance treatment, great, but that was never the starting goal. A very different mindset from someone like, for instance, Giorgio Moroder 😁.
And as for the bar fights… sadly, that’s something universal 😁.
Thanks again for reading and for sharing such thoughtful remarks, it’s reactions like yours that make writing here so rewarding. Wishing you a great Sunday!
Thanks Pe for that explanation of how the dance charts were constructed and how Barry pretty much stayed in the pop lane.
Just thought I'd add that I seem to remember seeing Barry on TV quite a lot. I'm guessing it was on talk shows where he would perform a song as well as sit on the sofa and chat with the host. He came across as very warm and likeable and became a beloved personality as well as a pop singer. (As did Bette Midler!) I think disco had a different reputation (young and city) and Barry was able to get fans from oldsters to kids across the country, so it seems like a smart strategy on his part.
Anyway, enjoying your in-depth analysis and have a great Sunday too!
Great assessments on "Copa" vs. other dance venues/styles, Ellen! I can see all of it. Not being a dancer, I can see how its beat, etc doesn't "fit" as well in the discos, or for Latin dancing. And, I hadn't thought about it, but Barry did seem to not only "shy away" from disco (as Pe outlined re: the fear of being outed, etc), but "do disco badly," perhaps intentionally! But, his non-disco stuff....chef's mmmwah!😘🎵
Always liked Bazza despite his deep unfashionability in rock circles; his mastery of the melancholy melody rivals Abba in my book. I was also amazed Copacabana had not been a hit here in the UK. It was actually commercially available on 12" - Bazza's first release on the format in Britain. The 12" single was expanding rapidly at the time. 1978 was the year that RCA announced more unlimited 12" runs so that the discs would be available across the UK and not just limited to the select group of record shops whose sales contributed to the compilation of the singles chart. This prompted a backlash that the 12" was taking over and being used for all sorts of "unnecessary" releases, which would have no doubt included Copacabana! The anti disco movement in the UK was thankfully feeble compared to the US, but reactions like this prove that it was around!
I think the 12-inch was also commercially available in the Benelux, Paul. Back then there was quite a lively debate about whether the format was really necessary. Record companies didn’t seem too bothered by the argument either—they weren’t big fans of the format (more formats meant more risk, and twelve-inches had lower margins than singles or LPs). It’s a fascinating part of the story, and one I plan to cover in more depth once the second tier of the newsletter kicks off after the summer.
That said, I was genuinely surprised to discover in my research that Copacabana never charted as a hit in the UK in 1978. Barry was (and is) hugely popular, so I suspect it was one of those timing issues. Meanwhile, here in the Benelux we’ve always had a historic soft spot for Latin rhythms 😁.
Thanks for reading and reacting, Paul, wishing you a great rest of the weekend!
I hear ya, Pe, but, late-'70s in the U.S., I seem to recall feedback from label reps and articles in the trades as seeing the clubs and discos more of a "new market" to exploit, and less of a POV of whether the format "was really necessary."
I know that's a lot of raw materials (PVC) to use for "just" 2 songs (1 per side, generally), and I'm not pushing back on all you said here (as we're both simply reflecting on our "countries of experience")....but, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
I think the labels (the TKs, Salsouls, et al) were delirious that they had the artists and the means to keep churning out product, and I think their POV was that (like radio), the discos were simply another venue through which a new record-buying audience could hear new music and, ostensibly, buy the same records they'd hear at clubs, and "open a disco" at their homes (for parties) if they had the records!
I'm just curious if you heard much about that side of the vinyl debate at the time (or from the late-'70s disco heyday time frame). Thanks!
There’s definitely a difference between independents like TK, West End, Salsoul… and the majors (or the more pop-oriented labels). The majors’ business was selling albums, and from what I can tell, twelve-inches didn’t drive album sales the way singles did. In Europe, CBS for example didn’t even release the US dance versions of tracks like Instant Replay on twelve-inch—they put out the single version instead. (Talk about frustrating the customer.) Their relationship with the twelve-inch was always a bit ambiguous. I’ll need to dig deeper into this, but it’s a topic I plan to cover once the second tier of the newsletter gets rolling.
Great reminder for me about the indies vs majors. I had neglected that POV in my rememberies! I seem to recall, also, the 12" format being adopted, to whatever degree, by the rock/non-disco artists. The majors seemed to want to (possibly) take advantage of that format to at least see how they'd be accepted (if at all) by rock fans/album buyers.
I think rock acts (and/or their labels) might've tried to use them as EPs, or just different ways to issue singles with colored or "splattered" vinyl (The Motors' "Forget About You" on Virgin/UK red vinyl comes to mind...I've featured it here: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/inside-tracks-5-the-motors-forget?utm_source=publication-search )
It just occurred to me that labels (indies and majors, both) were dealing, for the first time in decades, with a new vinyl format! Singles and LPs for decades, and now, this new 12" monster, and how to maximize its use! Disco, fine, but, how might they, if at all, use it for their larger rock roster?
I bet that was all an internal discussion within the C-suites of the day, and likely included the artists in how they'd like their product marketed!
A lot of debates indeed, Brad… and they’ve shifted over time. In the beginning, no “album-driven” label wanted to take the twelve-inch seriously. But by the eighties it flipped completely, suddenly every company was putting everything on twelve-inch, even the ballads.
Well, that may well be my "blind spot," Pe! By late '83, I was out of the biz, and back into college, and into a new career after that! I wasn't as "plugged in," even in the early-'80s at an L.A. record store, to the emerging changes in 12-inchers.
My memories are really only filled by their introduction in the mid-'70s, while I was still in Houston, and transitioning from radio to retail records right around '77, when the format (and disco) was exploding!
12" singles were initially seen as replacements for EPs here in the UK and not just in the rock market. The limited edition MCA Disco Series, for example, included 4 trackers featuring artists like Shirley Ellis. They were used to promote the back catalogue of artists who had a hit single or two, but not enough materal to justify a greatest hits collection.
Well, that's interesting! Thanks, Paul! I hadn't heard of that 12" usage here in the states! I'd never heard of labels using 12-inchers to promote back catalog songs! Pretty creative, actually, but, it hints at labels (wherever they may be) sort of testing any- and everything to make sure they don't miss a commercial angle for a new configuration!
OMG - great deep dive. I am a Fanilow for sure. This one always has me singing along. Many of his lesser known songs are really special as well - Even Now...bonkers idea but so good. And When October Goes never gets old.
Thanks, Tamara.....ooh, have I got somethin' for you! A 3-part Manilow marathon of songs recorded by Barry, but as recorded by the original songwriters!! I call 'em "They Write the Songs"!
These posts were inspired by my '80s mixtapes using the same premise....here's #1: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/they-write-the-songs-pt-1-barry-manilow?utm_source=publication-search
Enjoy!
OMG - Can’t wait for that. Yeah, the un-Fanilow’s don’t realize that he didn’t write his hits. The sly fox Clive Davis was having none of that.
I wouldn’t call myself a “Fanilow” in the strict sense 😁. But aside from Copacabana (the single I picked up on one of those shopping trips to Antwerp, my mother’s idea of a big city outing, where I was allowed to choose a record as a reward for “behaving”), I’ve always had a soft spot for much of his seventies work. The connection with Clive Davis & his writing is new to me and really interesting, thanks for sharing that. And thank you as well for reading and for the kind compliment, especially coming from a true Fanilow. Wishing you a great Sunday!
Great anecdote about "Pe behaving" and a resultant reward! Clive introduced Barry on an American TV music show (Midnight Special or Don Kirshner's Rock Concert....can't recall) as "a new star for America." It's almost like he was going to "will" Barry's popularity into existence! He certainly had to be convinced, at the time, that Barry had "the goods," and that together with the Arista machine Clive was building, it would all come together! It was amazing to watch in real time, and a master class to observe through the passage of time!
In those 3 “They Write the Songs” articles (or, at least in one), Tamara, you’ll meet Stephen Michael Schwartz, who recorded an album for RCA Records in 1974 (at age 20).
Barry, while not yet having recorded one of Stephen’s songs, he did sing one of them (“Merry Christmas Wherever You Are”) on a couple of ‘80s TV Christmas specials!
Stephen has penned 20 exclusive articles for FR&B, I’m beyond proud to say, and I know you’d love ‘em all! Stephen’s articles are tagged at the top of the FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE main page!
BTW, coupla years ago, Stephen told me Barry had told him he was finally gonna record “Merry Christmas Wherever You Are,” but that’s yet to happen. I tell friends I’m two degrees removed from Barry! I know someone who’s got Barry’s phone number….but, what’s more stunning to me is that I know someone whose number Barry would want to have! Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGoGz6_4FvI
This is all terribly exciting! I feel like I am hanging with the “it” crew now.
I think you’re so entrenched now, FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE, all that’s left is a jaunty round of Tune Tag! Holler at me in DMs if you’re game, Tamara, and I’ll fill you in on all the deets!😁👍
You guys make Friday great again. Back to the grind but believe it or not Copa has been hovering in my songbook for years great story song maybe the greatest story song. My recorded version will be a folk-rock take, along the lines of Bye, Bye American Pie possibly the greatest story song ever told oh well there's always Samson and Delilah by Blind Willie Johnson (unlistenable raspy vocals) and recorded by Rev. Gary Davis (very nice vocals and blues finger picking.) Also, Grateful Dead did it very well with Bob Weir at his best. But back to Copa Cabana. Was down there in Rio '99 partying like it was... and did that New Year's Eve festival: Lemanjá a major spectacular to rival carnival seeing in the New Year on Rio’s Copacabana Beach. Being one of around 3 million people on the beach, the vast majority dressed in white as they honor Lemanjá, the Goddess of the Sea, and one of the most important of the macumba deities. White candles sent into the ocean on little paper boats while native women smoke and drink and go into trances while Kid Abelha a new wave band from Rio de Janeiro formed by Paula Toller (lead vocals), George Israel (sax, guitar and vocals) and Bruno Fortunato (acoustic and electric guitar) played on the beach stage. Swimming in the warm ocean with a woman on each arm all peeing together after midnight floating there in the abyss. It doesn't get any warmer than that my musical brothers. A few years prior was guest listed at the NY Copa (East Side version not pictured) for "Thunderclub" and was properly introduced to bandleader Gerardo Velez by the promoter. He was probably the nicest musician I've ever met with a joyful presence. He is a blessed soul. He famously played congas with Jimi at Woodstock at 17 and is featured in the film having the time of his life. Saw him at Central Park Summer Stage with Chic (you knew there was a disco angle coming) as the World's Greatest Dancer and their featured percussionist. My second time seeing Chic live and they know how to throw a party. Like Friday Night! A B-Movie starring Donna Summer about a disco evening sometime after Saturday Night Fever! I've got it on DVD Jeff Goldblum in there too as a DB who can't get it on like Johnny T. So Funny! Commodores too Brrrrrick! Done that one and brought down the house in '09! Great disco sing-a-long anthem! On a sadder note, did you see Gloria Gaynor is accepting an award from DT! Oh well, she will survive. Somebody stop me! But thanks for letting me get my juices flowing. Too soon? You gave me a two-fer so I came back with a Tre! PS I have a live version of Good Times on a budget 3 CD disco set in a metal box no less, if need some rare live disco or alternate non-label royalty free tracks!
That’s quite a picture you painted there, Steve 😁, my imagination happily filled in the blanks 😂. TGIF may have been a B-movie, but what a soundtrack. And talking about Gloria Gaynor… it always surprises me how she somehow manages to stay eternally young(ish). Must be a secret potion involved 😁. Thanks for reading and reacting, Steve, have a great Sunday!
Thanks, Steve! Mercy! Looks like there's a Steve's Substack post lurking in here, somewhere! Get on it, yo! I've written a couple of Nile Rodgers pieces, mainly as he's worked, recently, with Roosevelt. Here's one: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/the-multi-generational-genius-of?utm_source=publication-search
Guys, this was FANTASTIC!!! I didn't know a lot about the song, and while it's never been a favourite of mine, one cannot deny how irresistibly catchy and memorable it is!
I particularly loved hearing both of your perspectives across the pond, and how much you taught us in just a couple of minutes!
Amazing work, from every single point of view, and here's a fan of this duo!
I think I can speak for both of us when I say Brad is a real inspiration, Andy. I’m so glad he was kind enough to collaborate on this one, it makes the episode truly special and one of my favorites so far. Really happy you enjoyed it, and thanks as always for reading, reacting (and sharing). I’m always honored by your support. Have a great Sunday!
Thanks for the sweet words, Pe! Always happy to contribute where and when I can!
Most definitely! Brad is a true inspiration, and as a friend and fan of you both, it was double the pleasure for me to enjoy this article and your collaboration!
All very well deserved, and I wish I could do more! 😊 Have a great weekend!
I'm sure of that ! Thanks Andy
Thanks, Andy! Pe was beyond generous in asking me to boogie on this one! I enjoyed offering mi dos centavos en el Copa!
Did you know that before his success Barry had a Punk band called Hot Mothers? They kicked ass but didn’t get anywhere. But Barry went right on kickin’ ass and just look at him now!!
“Don’t fall in Love” -
“Copacabana”
I didn’t know that, John, and it didn’t come up in my research, though I didn’t dig too deeply into the early years. Thanks for reading and reacting, and have a great Sunday!