Holy moly, Pé. This is so well written and researched. I was sucked into the stories you tell from word one. How you are able to sort and organize all the discoveries, both historical and personal (in the way you do), is impressive. I imagine this could become a book, should that be something you want to pursue.
Thanks Steve. I really appreciate this. The story is the most comprehensive one yet, but it was great fun to put together. I had to work with a lot of primary sources because almost nothing has been written about the subject.
Been looking forward to the CanCon series and this didn’t disappoint. I didn’t know either of these songs, but I can see why they were popular. I’m married to someone who spent the first 20 years of her life in Montreal (she’s English speaking, from Quebec not of Quebec, if that makes sense) so I’m aware of the complicated history of Montreal from a political and cultural perspective. I’m looking forward to reading more about the development of Montreal as an important place in dance music history.
Thanks Mark. Really glad you liked it. This is such a fascinating subject because Canada is, in many ways, like a bigger version of Belgium. I talk a bit about this in the first episode and go further into it in the second. So it was extra fascinating to draw the comparisons and discover just how well they hold up.
What is also fascinating is that I have to work with a lot of primary sources, because surprisingly little has been written about the subject. It makes this series the most comprehensive one yet. And Parts 2 and 3 are going to be major ones 😁
This is really fascinating, Pe! I'd never thought much about Canadian artists being able to break into the US market. I know Brits had a really tough time until 1964, but they had an entire ocean to cross!
I do know that the savvy Joni Mitchell was determined to get US citizenship and Neil Young also moved to the US, as have many Canadian actors wanting to make it in Hollywood or NY. Americans have no clue if you're Canadian or American unless you have an accent, and just assume you're an American artist without evidence to the contrary. But the news media tends to identify where you're 'from,' so being based in the US allows you to leverage a US location and identity.
The other thing I noticed is that she has a fabulous voice, but she really needed to up the glamour quotient to compete in the US. Women entertainers dressed to the nines and had the full-on hair and makeup in the sixties and seventies, pop and disco especially. Imho, it's as much about the look as the music given that artists were expected to perform on variety and talk shows on TV to plug the record.
Just some thoughts, but looking forward to more of this very intriguing research.
Hey Ellen, you touched on an interesting point there with Joni Mitchell and Neil Young. This is something that comes up sideways in Episode 2. In fact, the reason why they both crossed the border to sign with an American company was not only to have a better chance of conquering the US market, but even more because there was no real local industry in Canada.
Before the early seventies, Canada had only foreign-owned record companies, and none of them had a local repertoire department. They simply didn’t think it was worth it. Too difficult, not enough sales potential. Part of the story was that Canadians themselves thought they would never be able to compete with American artists. They were inundated with American TV, radio, movies, etc.
That started to change at the end of the sixties, when the Canadian government saw talent like Mitchell and Young signing in the US, and later introduced the Can-Con regulations that helped kickstart the local market. We had exactly the same problem in Belgium.
And about your remark on Patsy Gallant, you are absolutely right. I think part of the problem was that she was signed to a small independent. It would’ve simply been too much for them. And the song wasn’t club-ready enough to be interesting for one of the dance labels in New York, Miami or LA.
Thanks for reading, Ellen. It’s always a pleasure to read your remarks. 😁
Thanks for that explanation, Pe. I had no clue that's what was going on in the Canadian market. It explains so much. Really helpful to have your inside view and deep research.
I remember checking out the Boystown (ie Gay) charts in Record Mirror magazine during the early eighties which contained a fair few of those "tougher club-orientated records" on Canadian labels you mention.; look forward to finding out more about the background to some of these.
The title From New York To LA was obviously chosen for its appeal in the US market and reminded me that during the seventies the Canadian film industry was desperate to get a hit in the US, which finally arrived with Meatballs at the end of the decade starring Bill Murray; the point being there was no money to be made in the Canadian market. I was therefore surprised to learn that a good living could be made in the Quebec industry alone, but I guess this just goes to show my Anglo ignorance about French speaking markets and why your CanCon month should be essential reading!
Regarding AI scanning, it never crossed my mind that you used AI to compose your posts, but, as a glass half empty kind of guy myself, I have little doubt that your suspicions about the true reason why Substack are offering the service is sadly correct.
An important point indeed, Paul, and an enduring one, as it’s a very topical discussion at the moment: how dependent is Canada on its southern neighbour, and how does that influence the relationship?
I was as surprised as you to discover that this dependence is much broader and goes back much further than we might think. The Canadian market is probably not too small. It’s simply more difficult to reach because the different provinces and parts of Canada all have their own channels and ways of reaching an audience. There isn’t really one Canada, there are many different Canadas. In that sense, it was very comprehensible to me because I live in a country that works in much the same way 😁
As for the Quebec market, a lot of it has to do with the Révolution tranquille of the 1960s and the way it helped shape modern French-Canadian culture. Sadly, it also helped unleash the whole separation debate. It’s a fascinating country with a fascinating history.
Regarding the AI rant, I was so angry yesterday morning that, instead of finishing the B-Side, I started writing that post. And I’ve now discovered that when I’m angry, I write extremely fast 😁
Anyway, thanks for reading & reacting. It’s always great to read your comments. Have a great Sunday!
As an American, I approached this with a healthy, "WHO?!?" You did a beautiful job, Pe, of answering my question (your research skills are second to none, of course!). But, like all good research (and the scientific method requires), I had more questions, and I hope I did our 'Murican friends a favor in researching her U.S. presence. There WAS none! For all of her releases, '70s thru '80s, not a ONE was released in the States!
As with many/most artists who had U.S. releases in the '70s, I'd run across their product at some point, and even if I never listened to it, I'd know the name.....my mid-'70s radio work, or my late-'70s/early'80s work in retail records.
But, I had no recollection of Patsy, and Discogs, now, reveals why....NO U.S. label signed her! "Why?" is my next question! You hinted at, from the Canadian POV, what I was thinking about her and the states: We had had quite a bit of success with Donna and Gloria, Carol Douglas, and others, that I'm wondering if U.S. labels figured American audiences (retail, radio, and of course, clubs'n'discos) didn't/wouldn't want/accept a white gal in the disco lane (Andrea True notwithstanding)!
I considered that maybe her and/or her "people" weren't aggressive to pursue the American market, but that seems unlikely....who wouldn't want to expand their market if given the chance?!? I wonder if she ever auditioned for any, but with all her international product out there, domestic label execs HAD to have heard what was out there!
Thanks again, Pe....it's GOOD for me to think this hard on a Saturday morning!😁👍💃🎵
That’s indeed the million-dollar question, Brad! She was signed to Attic, a relatively new Toronto independent at the time. From what I can see, in the territories where Attic didn’t release the track themselves, it came out through EMI, which makes me think they probably had some kind of international deal with them. And then, of course, it became Capitol’s decision whether to release it in the US or not.
I also know Capitol didn’t really have much feeling for the disco market at that point. What they released before Saturday Night Fever, like Tavares, was treated more as an extension of “Black music” than as part of a genre they considered particularly valuable. They may even have thought disco was just a fad. In that case, Patsy may also have had her skin colour working against her 😁
Another factor could be that she had previously been signed to CBS, who had already invested quite a bit of money trying to break Patsy Gallant in the US, without much success. Capitol may simply not have been convinced it would work this time around either. And, to be fair, the album and the other tracks weren’t that strong.
I’m speculating here, but I suspect it was probably a combination of all those things.
Anyway, thanks for reading and taking the time to react. And yes, thinking hard is always good, even on a Saturday morning 😁 Have a great weekend, Brad!
Thanks for this, Pe! I knew I had run into Attic at some point, and I think it was from a couple/few new wave/punk acts, late-'70s, and your U.S. Capitol affiliation sounds familiar (or with EMI on UK "imports" to U.S.). As does your assertion that Capitol was a virtual non-player in the disco realm, the great Tavares notwithstanding!
I saw Patsy's 4 albums on CBS, early-'70s, but my guess is those were fairly staid pop/MOR material, and only with Attic did she start to move into the disco realm (and not with CBS). BUT, at least knowing her talent (and deeming she might not "translate" into the disco arena), CBS may have also decided they'd just move on from her, disco or not!
Your knowledge of her relatively weak material....I'll lean into THAT as being the reason no U.S. label rolled the dice on her! Thanks again, and Happy Weekend to you, as well!
One of the surprising things I came across during my Canadian research was a quote from a Québécois artist saying that American record companies didn’t want French-Canadian artists recording English versions of American songs. On the one hand, they thought it would invariably sound awful. On the other, there was the “import” problem 😁
The musical relationship between the US and its northern neighbour has always been a bit… peculiar 😁 It’s one of the reasons I found this research so fascinating.
Well sure....I can see why! Never considered that language issue, and the apparent reluctance of U.S. labels to work across the border on what seems to be just a petty "problem," and certainly not insurmountable. Well, like anything else....for the labels, they just had to "wanna"!
This was fascinating on so many different levels. I didn't know anything about her and my knowledge of CanCon is very limited outside the megastars, so this was very informative. I particularly enjoyed your record industry insights and cultural considerations. You're so uniquely talented, Pe. Scientific rigour with a healthy dose of spice. I said it first!
Haha... thanks, Andy. It’s already quite hot this afternoon, so at least people won’t be able to see me blush after reading your wonderful compliment 😁 Thanks for reading and for your support. It really means a lot!
More than deserved, Pe! I looooove your cultural, historical, geographical considerations and how well you integrate them into your musical commentary and razor-sharp record industry insights. You're the only one I know who can do this so smoothly. Enjoy the heat! I know it's tough if you're built for winter, but think how much you'll miss it come November (or even October 🤣).
I remember Gallant from my childhood. At least two of her songs--NY to LA and Ready for Love--plus the Tv series she had. Quebec artists by and large don't crossover into the English mainstream. There is a famous saying that Canada is two solitudes. It is a more complicated country than that, but when it comes to culture, there is a truth to it, even if i think Canadian artists fare better in Quebec than vice versa. I will say it was wild when i did discover the origins of NY to LA. I can't think of many things as brazen as that. But i will never not chuckle at the lyric, which posited her as a star in those two markets and nowhere else in the US.
What I found amazing was the difference in quality between the two lyrics. Mon Pays is a beautiful lyric about the love for Quebec. Even if it has been used and recuperated politically, it remains a beautiful lyric. And then you have the English lyric, which is basically a dime a dozen...
I saw an interview with Gilles Vigneault, the writer and original artist of Mon Pays, in which he said he was confronted with From New York to L.A. as a fait accompli. In retrospect, he wasn’t totally unhappy about it, it earned him money 😁, but he didn’t really understand it.
It’s a perfect illustration of what you say, Emm. In many ways, Canada is a much bigger version of my own country, where two communities live alongside each other. We live about 10 km from the language border with Flanders. My neighbours don’t speak a word of Flemish and couldn’t care less about what happens 10 km north of them.
That’s one of the reasons I find writing this story about Canada and its disco history so fascinating. It helps me understand it because, in a strange way, I can relate to it.
Holy moly, Pé. This is so well written and researched. I was sucked into the stories you tell from word one. How you are able to sort and organize all the discoveries, both historical and personal (in the way you do), is impressive. I imagine this could become a book, should that be something you want to pursue.
Thanks Steve. I really appreciate this. The story is the most comprehensive one yet, but it was great fun to put together. I had to work with a lot of primary sources because almost nothing has been written about the subject.
Been looking forward to the CanCon series and this didn’t disappoint. I didn’t know either of these songs, but I can see why they were popular. I’m married to someone who spent the first 20 years of her life in Montreal (she’s English speaking, from Quebec not of Quebec, if that makes sense) so I’m aware of the complicated history of Montreal from a political and cultural perspective. I’m looking forward to reading more about the development of Montreal as an important place in dance music history.
Thanks Mark. Really glad you liked it. This is such a fascinating subject because Canada is, in many ways, like a bigger version of Belgium. I talk a bit about this in the first episode and go further into it in the second. So it was extra fascinating to draw the comparisons and discover just how well they hold up.
What is also fascinating is that I have to work with a lot of primary sources, because surprisingly little has been written about the subject. It makes this series the most comprehensive one yet. And Parts 2 and 3 are going to be major ones 😁
This is really fascinating, Pe! I'd never thought much about Canadian artists being able to break into the US market. I know Brits had a really tough time until 1964, but they had an entire ocean to cross!
I do know that the savvy Joni Mitchell was determined to get US citizenship and Neil Young also moved to the US, as have many Canadian actors wanting to make it in Hollywood or NY. Americans have no clue if you're Canadian or American unless you have an accent, and just assume you're an American artist without evidence to the contrary. But the news media tends to identify where you're 'from,' so being based in the US allows you to leverage a US location and identity.
The other thing I noticed is that she has a fabulous voice, but she really needed to up the glamour quotient to compete in the US. Women entertainers dressed to the nines and had the full-on hair and makeup in the sixties and seventies, pop and disco especially. Imho, it's as much about the look as the music given that artists were expected to perform on variety and talk shows on TV to plug the record.
Just some thoughts, but looking forward to more of this very intriguing research.
Hey Ellen, you touched on an interesting point there with Joni Mitchell and Neil Young. This is something that comes up sideways in Episode 2. In fact, the reason why they both crossed the border to sign with an American company was not only to have a better chance of conquering the US market, but even more because there was no real local industry in Canada.
Before the early seventies, Canada had only foreign-owned record companies, and none of them had a local repertoire department. They simply didn’t think it was worth it. Too difficult, not enough sales potential. Part of the story was that Canadians themselves thought they would never be able to compete with American artists. They were inundated with American TV, radio, movies, etc.
That started to change at the end of the sixties, when the Canadian government saw talent like Mitchell and Young signing in the US, and later introduced the Can-Con regulations that helped kickstart the local market. We had exactly the same problem in Belgium.
And about your remark on Patsy Gallant, you are absolutely right. I think part of the problem was that she was signed to a small independent. It would’ve simply been too much for them. And the song wasn’t club-ready enough to be interesting for one of the dance labels in New York, Miami or LA.
Thanks for reading, Ellen. It’s always a pleasure to read your remarks. 😁
Thanks for that explanation, Pe. I had no clue that's what was going on in the Canadian market. It explains so much. Really helpful to have your inside view and deep research.
I remember checking out the Boystown (ie Gay) charts in Record Mirror magazine during the early eighties which contained a fair few of those "tougher club-orientated records" on Canadian labels you mention.; look forward to finding out more about the background to some of these.
The title From New York To LA was obviously chosen for its appeal in the US market and reminded me that during the seventies the Canadian film industry was desperate to get a hit in the US, which finally arrived with Meatballs at the end of the decade starring Bill Murray; the point being there was no money to be made in the Canadian market. I was therefore surprised to learn that a good living could be made in the Quebec industry alone, but I guess this just goes to show my Anglo ignorance about French speaking markets and why your CanCon month should be essential reading!
Regarding AI scanning, it never crossed my mind that you used AI to compose your posts, but, as a glass half empty kind of guy myself, I have little doubt that your suspicions about the true reason why Substack are offering the service is sadly correct.
An important point indeed, Paul, and an enduring one, as it’s a very topical discussion at the moment: how dependent is Canada on its southern neighbour, and how does that influence the relationship?
I was as surprised as you to discover that this dependence is much broader and goes back much further than we might think. The Canadian market is probably not too small. It’s simply more difficult to reach because the different provinces and parts of Canada all have their own channels and ways of reaching an audience. There isn’t really one Canada, there are many different Canadas. In that sense, it was very comprehensible to me because I live in a country that works in much the same way 😁
As for the Quebec market, a lot of it has to do with the Révolution tranquille of the 1960s and the way it helped shape modern French-Canadian culture. Sadly, it also helped unleash the whole separation debate. It’s a fascinating country with a fascinating history.
Regarding the AI rant, I was so angry yesterday morning that, instead of finishing the B-Side, I started writing that post. And I’ve now discovered that when I’m angry, I write extremely fast 😁
Anyway, thanks for reading & reacting. It’s always great to read your comments. Have a great Sunday!
As an American, I approached this with a healthy, "WHO?!?" You did a beautiful job, Pe, of answering my question (your research skills are second to none, of course!). But, like all good research (and the scientific method requires), I had more questions, and I hope I did our 'Murican friends a favor in researching her U.S. presence. There WAS none! For all of her releases, '70s thru '80s, not a ONE was released in the States!
As with many/most artists who had U.S. releases in the '70s, I'd run across their product at some point, and even if I never listened to it, I'd know the name.....my mid-'70s radio work, or my late-'70s/early'80s work in retail records.
But, I had no recollection of Patsy, and Discogs, now, reveals why....NO U.S. label signed her! "Why?" is my next question! You hinted at, from the Canadian POV, what I was thinking about her and the states: We had had quite a bit of success with Donna and Gloria, Carol Douglas, and others, that I'm wondering if U.S. labels figured American audiences (retail, radio, and of course, clubs'n'discos) didn't/wouldn't want/accept a white gal in the disco lane (Andrea True notwithstanding)!
I considered that maybe her and/or her "people" weren't aggressive to pursue the American market, but that seems unlikely....who wouldn't want to expand their market if given the chance?!? I wonder if she ever auditioned for any, but with all her international product out there, domestic label execs HAD to have heard what was out there!
Thanks again, Pe....it's GOOD for me to think this hard on a Saturday morning!😁👍💃🎵
That’s indeed the million-dollar question, Brad! She was signed to Attic, a relatively new Toronto independent at the time. From what I can see, in the territories where Attic didn’t release the track themselves, it came out through EMI, which makes me think they probably had some kind of international deal with them. And then, of course, it became Capitol’s decision whether to release it in the US or not.
I also know Capitol didn’t really have much feeling for the disco market at that point. What they released before Saturday Night Fever, like Tavares, was treated more as an extension of “Black music” than as part of a genre they considered particularly valuable. They may even have thought disco was just a fad. In that case, Patsy may also have had her skin colour working against her 😁
Another factor could be that she had previously been signed to CBS, who had already invested quite a bit of money trying to break Patsy Gallant in the US, without much success. Capitol may simply not have been convinced it would work this time around either. And, to be fair, the album and the other tracks weren’t that strong.
I’m speculating here, but I suspect it was probably a combination of all those things.
Anyway, thanks for reading and taking the time to react. And yes, thinking hard is always good, even on a Saturday morning 😁 Have a great weekend, Brad!
Thanks for this, Pe! I knew I had run into Attic at some point, and I think it was from a couple/few new wave/punk acts, late-'70s, and your U.S. Capitol affiliation sounds familiar (or with EMI on UK "imports" to U.S.). As does your assertion that Capitol was a virtual non-player in the disco realm, the great Tavares notwithstanding!
I saw Patsy's 4 albums on CBS, early-'70s, but my guess is those were fairly staid pop/MOR material, and only with Attic did she start to move into the disco realm (and not with CBS). BUT, at least knowing her talent (and deeming she might not "translate" into the disco arena), CBS may have also decided they'd just move on from her, disco or not!
Your knowledge of her relatively weak material....I'll lean into THAT as being the reason no U.S. label rolled the dice on her! Thanks again, and Happy Weekend to you, as well!
One of the surprising things I came across during my Canadian research was a quote from a Québécois artist saying that American record companies didn’t want French-Canadian artists recording English versions of American songs. On the one hand, they thought it would invariably sound awful. On the other, there was the “import” problem 😁
The musical relationship between the US and its northern neighbour has always been a bit… peculiar 😁 It’s one of the reasons I found this research so fascinating.
Well sure....I can see why! Never considered that language issue, and the apparent reluctance of U.S. labels to work across the border on what seems to be just a petty "problem," and certainly not insurmountable. Well, like anything else....for the labels, they just had to "wanna"!
This was fascinating on so many different levels. I didn't know anything about her and my knowledge of CanCon is very limited outside the megastars, so this was very informative. I particularly enjoyed your record industry insights and cultural considerations. You're so uniquely talented, Pe. Scientific rigour with a healthy dose of spice. I said it first!
Haha... thanks, Andy. It’s already quite hot this afternoon, so at least people won’t be able to see me blush after reading your wonderful compliment 😁 Thanks for reading and for your support. It really means a lot!
More than deserved, Pe! I looooove your cultural, historical, geographical considerations and how well you integrate them into your musical commentary and razor-sharp record industry insights. You're the only one I know who can do this so smoothly. Enjoy the heat! I know it's tough if you're built for winter, but think how much you'll miss it come November (or even October 🤣).
I remember Gallant from my childhood. At least two of her songs--NY to LA and Ready for Love--plus the Tv series she had. Quebec artists by and large don't crossover into the English mainstream. There is a famous saying that Canada is two solitudes. It is a more complicated country than that, but when it comes to culture, there is a truth to it, even if i think Canadian artists fare better in Quebec than vice versa. I will say it was wild when i did discover the origins of NY to LA. I can't think of many things as brazen as that. But i will never not chuckle at the lyric, which posited her as a star in those two markets and nowhere else in the US.
What I found amazing was the difference in quality between the two lyrics. Mon Pays is a beautiful lyric about the love for Quebec. Even if it has been used and recuperated politically, it remains a beautiful lyric. And then you have the English lyric, which is basically a dime a dozen...
I saw an interview with Gilles Vigneault, the writer and original artist of Mon Pays, in which he said he was confronted with From New York to L.A. as a fait accompli. In retrospect, he wasn’t totally unhappy about it, it earned him money 😁, but he didn’t really understand it.
It’s a perfect illustration of what you say, Emm. In many ways, Canada is a much bigger version of my own country, where two communities live alongside each other. We live about 10 km from the language border with Flanders. My neighbours don’t speak a word of Flemish and couldn’t care less about what happens 10 km north of them.
That’s one of the reasons I find writing this story about Canada and its disco history so fascinating. It helps me understand it because, in a strange way, I can relate to it.